It’s Milestone Monday! After nearly four years, we’re celebrating one hundred episodes! With that, we felt like it was time to update you on projects, and make some announcements, like our Patreon! We also look at the progress on the Drunken UX site redesign, and look back on some popular episodes. Here’s to 100 more!

Followup Resources


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Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good night. It’s a steal What is that? Jim Carrey I think said that in a movie that nobody remembers. But hey, it’s The Drunken UX Podcast. Hey, it’s the episode. Hey, I’m your host, Michael Fienen.

think it was the the Harry S. Truman Show, right?

Was that what that was? Yeah, good afternoon. Good evening and good night that the okay. I’m gonna take your word for it. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen so I’m

your other other hosts. Aaron. How you doing Michael

doing? Well, I’m doing well i’m i’m 100 episodes in. I’m ready for 100 more, we’re gonna record all of those tonight. It’s gonna be a long night. Luckily, I have a black hole in my back pocket. time dilation is our friend and we’re gonna squeeze anything out without any problems. Also can see into the future know what’s coming.

Excellent. It’s always good to have a black hole in your pocket. They come in handy.

I like cold in my pocket, and the other ones carry in a neutron star.

Did you did you make your Black Hole by putting a Pez across the top of a nine volt battery?

No, I just ate a lot of Mexican for lunch and my stomach was kind of like crushed itself. They make really big burritos at the place I go to. Hey, everybody. Drunken UX Podcast. They got weird real fast. Hopefully. Pretty Oh, wait,

Are we rolling tape already?

Oh, yeah, it’s happening, buddy. This is in fact the 100th episode. You knew it was coming. We knew it was coming. We you know number of the episodes and can count as it turns out. We’re going to be kind of, well, a lot of stuff. We’re going to be looking back on a few things. We’re going to be announcing a few things. We’re going to be talking about what’s coming, and then getting ready for the next four episodes to end out the season.

I’m pretty excited about all of that. I’m excited enough that I brought out something a little special to drink. I have myself I had to go on the hunt. I had to enlist the help of a couple people. I had to shell out a fair amount of money more than it used to cost because it is hard to find. Three Yamazaki 12 oh yeah pretty decent bottle whiskey.

Yeah, this this stuff one or I think was the 18 one like whiskey of the world for the year a couple years ago and as soon as that happened people went Japan makes whiskey well go sign me up and then Japan sold out of their whiskey and they started keeping the best stuff there and started shipping us crap like Toki.

so this I’ve been looking for a bottle for quite a long time and I thought special occasion deserves a special whiskey so that’s that is what I’m on I I’ve described because it’s made in the tradition of scotch but right like champagne can’t be called scotch because it does not come from the scotch region of Japan. Michael Fienen And but it is whiskey It is made in the same fashion it is a single grain single bar single batch barley whiskey it’s a very fruity, very citrusy nose to it. Michael Fienen It has a flavor and the way I describe it to people is distinctly Japanese okay which is to say like it’s got a sort of sharpness to it a very no nonsense refined like just so you know I don’t have a good way if you’ve ever watched like a really talented sushi chef like make just a piece of sushi a single piece of sushi and like there is no hand motion wasted everything comes out the exact same size every time their fingers like no every motion. Michael Fienen The whiskey tastes like that. It’s it’s got a almost a here’s here’s something you know distinctly Japanese it’s got a wintery Enos to it. Oh, okay, like, you know, it’s cold in Japan, it’s cold in Scotland. And you know a lot of those barrels get stored away depending on where they are underground, sometimes in caves, things like that where it’s very temperate and temperature controlled.

And scotch comes back with a sort of musty oak flavor that kind of underlines it. A little Bit which doesn’t sound good, but it is like it’s a, it’s just a flavor that you pick up on. You know, it’s kind of like an aged steak, right? A dry aged, okay? And how people say, well, it’s, you know, you’re basically letting the steak dry rot. And it’s like it doesn’t.

It’s not like it’s not a good process to hear described, but it is it makes it better it makes it taste better. And the Yamazaki I think, for its region comes back with a sort of crispness to it, the air that permeates those barrels to where it’s stored, that also kind of just, it’s Japanese. That’s the way I can describe it. And it’s like, it’s expensive that the 12 is not like absurd, but it’s not cheap.

But it is worth getting once if you’ve never had it and you have an opportunity even just to have a glass of it. If you can find a bottle of the 18 more loteria if you can get it for 800 bucks a bottle then it’s worth it.

Wow that like it’s impossible to find at this point so and they ran out of it like it’s I believe that vintage is about to be discontinued temporarily because they need to build up stock as you know, you need a supply of whiskey to make whiskey over the years. So anyway, there’s a very long winded discussion, but I said something special because Aaron dammit you’re worth it.

Thanks for relaxing times Mickey Yamazaki times.

Suntory times.

We’re not tricking centaury though.

It is distributed by Suntory. Oh, yeah, they own it. Oh, oh, cool. Okay.

Right on. I spaced out and forgot to get some kind of special beverage for tonight. So I am finishing off my bottle of cazadores. And I did a kind of like the tequila sour that. Um, I think it was. It was just and we’re talking about Cyprus. She had said that I was drinking it tequila sour, which is similar to like a whiskey sour. So that’s kind of what I have tonight, is that I threw some blue curacao in it to add color. I mean, it’s interesting. That’s

it’s not really good for anything else. So yeah. Hey, everybody, it’s not too late. Even though we’re 100 episodes in, you haven’t missed the train. If you want to catch up with us anywhere. Check us out on Twitter or Facebook at slash drunk in UX, or Instagram at slash Drunken UX Podcast, or discord at Drunken UX? Podcast core, we’d love to hear from you. And know, hey, we got a lot more coming. We got four more this season, we got season five in the pipeline.

What do you want to hear about because I’ve got some stuff written down. I’ve got some deals I’m chasing. And I would love to add your thoughts to the mix. So any topic you want to hear us cover, please let us know. With that. That’s the formality. All right. That’s very, that’s very business as usual, let’s say all the social stuff. I want to open up first and foremost, to go over something we’ve gone over. That way we can finish with stuff that we haven’t gone over.

Okay, I like how this is going. But

I planned it out explicitly to make sure that it didn’t ruffle your feathers and that you would be on board. So that’s very important to me. We’ve been talking over the months now about the redesign of The Drunken UX Podcast and it most of you don’t necessarily have a whole big reason to care so much, because I mean, very few people listen to the show through the site.

You listen to it through Apple podcasts or Google podcasts or audible or any of the other places anywhere podcasts are found. But we are doing a redesign of the site because our current site is using a canned theme isn’t good. I mean, the theme is good but it has no I mean it’s it served us well for four years.

Yeah, but but we want more we and we have not done it justice in terms of using it and making sure like the way we’re using it isn’t like clashing with things like it’s ugly. We know. It’s the cobblers children don’t have shoes kind of situation. So this was important to us. And we’ve talked about it many times at this point. We are now kind of in the last mile. I’ve been putting in a lot of hours here lately to kind of wrap things up.

And I am hoping by the end of season four I was genuinely going to try to get it out by the time this episode airs. But it will not be out by the time this episode airs. But by the end of the season, you will see a new drug and UX site. I do encourage everybody to go check it out once that’s live, and we will of course say that when it goes fully live, but we are putting a huge emphasis on accessibility we’re putting a huge emphasis on things like keyboard controls.

You know, everything from color contrast to labeling is all taken care of. It’s meant to be lightweight, it’s meant to be fast. We’re doing a lot of stuff And I think it’s really cool because it’s a chance like it has been my sandbox to put into practice, a lot of the things we have talked about on past episodes of this show.

And the cool part is we’re doing it out in the open, there is a repo slash drunk in UX, where we have the theme in development, and anybody can go look at that, like it is an open WordPress theme as far as I’m concerned. So it’s out there for people to poke at to make suggestions that to get ideas from or to see how did we do you know, whatever.

And I want to make sure that everybody understands they are welcome to go see that or, or engage with us however they want to. And I do look forward to what that means for the future of the podcast as it grows, because it will be better across the board. Everything about the presentation is going to look better. The the look and feel of it is just nicer, it’s more cohesive. It makes a lot

of noise, get a better product, if

you make it bespoke. Yeah. And yeah, I’m the first to admit that I am a lousy designer, I really am. I am not a graphic designer, I don’t have a good graphic guy. I can build anything. But usually I asked somebody else to do it. And this has been sort of an effort on my part to also flex that a little bit. And it’s not great. But it’s not bad. Like I’m pretty and Aaron, you’ve seen you know, yeah, the been

pretty nice. Yeah, it’s,

it’s got a lot going on that I feel really nice about.

I would say like, it’s very clean, and simple and maybe like a little bit minimalist. So it’s not making any kind of like bold statements or anything with its design. But I think that’s fine. I think it keeps the focus on the content. And, and it’s like easy to use. So

I think that’s a good way. Like if you are a developer who doesn’t have a great design chops. Anybody can do minimalism. Like that’s a thing. And you’re right. And I think I really did do that very intentionally. Because, oh, man, yeah, I can’t go crazy with this. I’m not good at it. But I can do something simple. That’s very unoffensive. You know, it’s not pushing any boundaries. But like, it gave me the chance to include, you know, new JavaScript techniques, new test, test suite, techniques, CSS animations that I hadn’t used before I’m incorporating into this that are all just their window, dressing their things to make it look nicer, more engaging. But the designer at my day job, he uses this phrase, you know, he wants to delight the user. And I’m like, I can delight the user, you know, little things that just add fun, so to speak. It’s not much, but it’s it’s little stuff. And I’m pretty pleased with that. The other reason I bring this up, though, is also as a warning, small one, that you will be seeing new design collateral for all of our episodes moving forward. Once this goes. What does that mean? That means this old stencil font that you may have seen in a lot of the stuff we share on Facebook, or Yeah, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and all of this, that’s all going to change the cover art for our episodes, that’s all going to change, it’s going to be much more uniform, it’s going to match like our logo treatment and color scheme and all of that and just be easier to use and read moving forward. So there’s going to be some changes there. And just don’t be surprised when you see it. That’s all quality of life stuff for myself, certainly, I’m going to be working with a designer to kind of come up with like a really good template for all of that kind of stuff that makes it easy to pump it out, but still neat and interesting and still identifiably us. The stuff we have now is stuff I whipped up in an evening four years ago and just never changed. And the stencil font well while and as an example, right, the stencil thought was an an effort of mine to make up for the fact that I can’t design so I’m like, I’ll use I’ll use a weird fancy font, you know, like, that’s designed that’s, you know, that adds visual interest to what people are seeing.

I think that’s all the whole better is the enemy of done thing, right? Like we just there, we needed something that worked so we could have a site and ship that. I say we you like you built the site. So you ship that and it’s worked and it’s worked fine for the last four years and we’re getting around to fixing it now and that’s cool. But like sometimes you start with something it’s like I don’t know, I think that that’s perfectly fine and like you shouldn’t be expected to have something perfect when you launch?

No, no. Yeah. Yet you can’t lock, it is impossible to launch perfection. You say perfection is the enemy of done. I mean, that’s Yeah, same same thing.

I don’t want to say it’s impossible but it’s generally like not worth the all that extra effort because that means you’re using a lot of extra resources to push you from, like 80% on that exponential path up to 100%, when you could be taking that all that effort and using it to build something else, or do put it towards other endeavors.

And here’s some a word of advice to especially any Junior devs that are listening even, you know, mid or senior tier devs. I’m good at what I do, I’m very proud of what I do and the work we accomplish. Not just with the show, but like in my general life. I could have had all of this done three months ago, could have I made a choice to do this at a pace that was healthy for me. And that meant going a couple weeks at a time without ever touching the codebase. Because I needed to spend my night not being on a computer. And I say that to just reinforce this notion that even if something’s important to you, be sure you pay attention to your work life balances, don’t grind yourself to a pulp. Just because you feel like you have to. Because you never have to do that you never have to put yourself through that. That work life balance is very important. And it’s great if you have fun with it, and you enjoy it. I used to be that way. When I was younger, I enjoyed getting phone calls from work at eight o’clock at night because something was broken or down and I was like, ah, I get to go be Superman, you know, I get to go be the hero of the night. And that’s great for a while. And it’s okay to find the point where you say, not not great anymore, and I’m gonna be otherwise. And so that’s I don’t make apologies. I know we’ve talked about it many times. And it sounds like oh, this redesign, I’d sure like to see it or something. When you get that done. You know that phrase, it’ll be done when it’s done. But it is it is very close now. It’s close enough now that I’m comfortable actually saying Yeah, keep your eyes open into the seasons on the way Christmas present for everybody, mostly myself. But yeah, we’ll be putting that out in the wild. But we do have another project going on that I want to tie into this. And obviously we talked about this, I think quite a bit in the last episode, which is our ethics website. And our what I’m currently calling the web ethics commitment project. This is a site that is that not ready yet. It’s it’s pretty far from ready because I am trying to put my effort towards the redesign. But this is another thing we are building that is going to carry us through I think the rest of this season. And then next season, I’m going to be pushing on this really hard, which is this notion of how do you do what we do with right mindedness. And I’m engaging with several folks, I’m talking with a lot of people about what resources should be on a site like that, what tools should be on a site like that? What should it say? What kind of what should the advice be in terms of what should you do? What should you not do? What should you avoid? And so I’m really excited about that. Similarly suffering from my lack of design expertise. But this is one of those areas where I’m working on. I’m talking with a few folks, I’m working on putting a small, very small team together to kind of help with this where maybe I can get some design input from folks who are much more talented than I am. In that I

think that it’s, I think when we do it, like what you can what you should and shouldn’t do it. Those should really be more like, if you’re doing this correctly, these are things you would probably do or not do, rather than being like a do and don’t list. Because it’s like, like we talked about in the last episode like it This isn’t like an accessibility checklist. Yeah, right. Like it’s, it’s coming from the source of acting in a kind way towards your users. And so when you can find that, like the process is really finding that place, and then everything else comes from there.

And like you said, perfection is the enemy of done. It’s impossible, Texas’s success yet it’s impossible to exercise this stuff. Perfectly in always that’s not the point. The point is to center you.

Yeah, yeah, I think what I think what I mean is when we’re looking at the items like that of things that you would want to do. When adhering to this kind of like locus. The emphasis should always be on like finding where all these things intersect and going in that direction and not staying at do like the do’s and don’ts Yeah, like the process isn’t lingering at the do’s and don’ts and following those. Like that’s that’s not where the action is the action is finding where they go and following that. And that I think that’s really like at the crux of this.

The other cool part is that I’m pushing this I’m pushing it very hard. We’ve got it I don’t think by the time this episode airs, I don’t think it’s out yet. But if you are looking for something else to listen to at some point, I think within a couple of weeks of this episode, I will be on an upcoming episode of chasing Leviathan where I have been talking about not just web ethics but web communication and the effects of digital experience on our lives. I encourage everybody to check that out I will plug that again once the once I know the episode has dropped but I know it is coming out shortly. So that’ll be over on the chasing Leviathan podcast. And I’ve got a couple more that are about to record I’m I won’t spoil quite yet. But I’ve got two more shows that I will be talking similarly about the importance of web ethics about the importance of communication and communication strategy at a high level how communication affects us in terms of web development. And the other little teaser I’ll put on this is I may be working on a longer form physical tome of sorts that may get into things like the application of communication theory in web development, and how it can magazine Yeah, maybe like the magazine but perhaps because not but it will get into communication it will get into kind design it will get into ethics, and kind of Yes, it will be an entire I’m a big fan of antiques. And so it is a 37 volume I added some letters because I had a lot to say

one of the books is just the letter A repeated way 185 pages

one of one of them is a symbol of eldritch knowledge it unfortunately required me to find a printer capable of doing leather yeah leather bindings in four dimensions you can only actually see like half of the symbol at any given point depending on the angle you look at it it’s

it’s a seventh book right and you you you lose

a little bit of your mind in the process but I mean totally worth it let me tell you

all the way Yeah, every series needs that

So yeah, those that’s what we got in progress right now and that’s like big thinking website stuff strategy stuff and and, and other creation that’s coming from us. We’re 100 episodes in I got I got at least 100 more in me so I think I’ve got time to pull all of this off.

When we do the 200th episode we can say it’s the 100th episode

mark to mark two Yeah. Um, let’s see didn’t next thing we want to touch on and this it’s not done when we’re recording. But it should absolutely be done by the time you are listening to this is we are at long last we’ve talked about this for a long time I actually started it two years ago, writing it and putting it together. And I just never was at a place where I felt comfortable launching it but we are going to be launching a Patreon or drunken UX now this is not us begging for money It is not like any kind of like hey, I’m trying to guild my pockets on this. It is none of that this is simply for anybody who is out there who has enjoyed the show over the last four years who has been listening, you know, pandemic or no pandemic and all of this and feels like hey, it’s worth $1 a month to me or any you know, we’re gonna have a couple different levels most of them will be very cheap, because I’m not trying to you know, like again, I’m not trying to like dig in anybody but

my Michael and I have have a disagreement about how to do the tiro price

I am going patriot I’m going to compromise there will be a couple higher price tiers if somebody really feels so inclined. I am going to meet you on that. But we will have a Patreon it will be available you will be able to find it by going to drunk in slash support Because I don’t know off the top of my head I think it’s gonna be like slash drunken UX or something like that but probably I just don’t know that off the top of my head for certain and then if we ever move it or something I can you know it redirect we

should probably just do redirects for all of our things like Chuck in UX comm slash Facebook slash Twitter slash Instagram Who says I don’t I just don’t have the rehab I just don’t promote him

Don’t Hey wait What are you doing don’t do that

I’m looking doesn’t work

don’t man why why you got to do a lot live on air

oh wait because we’re gonna you’re gonna do it in between now and then now I’ll probably play the magic of radio man

I will I will probably not do that. But no drinking you calm slash support we will have some very you know very mind loves if you are feeling generous, I will likely have a level that will let you pay what you want and we will have a couple higher tiers as well.

I support several Patreon Patreon campaigns myself. And you know a lot of them will have like, you know, like mild perks. Yeah, levels and I’m trying we’ve been trying to think about like, what would actually be interesting or be worth you know, like what like I’m one of the patrons like I bumped up from the $5 level to the $15 level. Because it like gave me like early access access to certain content. And and also because I just wanted to support the show more like it’s it’s a great show and I wanted to support it. Um, but I don’t like we’re trying to think of like what, what would be additional content that would be worth it? that we could do?

You’re gonna make me spoil the park.

No, no, don’t spoil the park. I’m genuinely curious to the listeners. Like what would you want? You will see Yeah, because like we both have a finite amount of time. And so we don’t want to just go and just create all this content that may or may not be interesting, because it takes a lot of time to do but I mean, if we knew that something would be good or useful or interesting, we could definitely do something for that

none of which is to say we don’t have perks no we do but and I’m also curious I I feel like I should spoil the park because I I didn’t I bought it

so I actually don’t know what to do

we know exactly what it was yes, you I know what it is, you know what it is? I we we love our guests, we appreciate the hell out of our guests. We are thrilled with our guests hang around for an hour and a half up to two hours sometimes talking about these things they are passionate about and knowledgeable, knowledgeable about all of this and our show is an hour long and that is a very strict limit I put on everything Did I make a joke why is that funny? I said funny things and you haven’t laughed that hard.

You’re gonna make me go into look at the episode length of all of our last 10 episodes. I know they’re over over an hour I don’t think we’ve ever had one at an hour before.

I’m going to sit here and smile with a smug grin on my face while he is looking. Oh read read off the times for our listeners

huh All right, I stand

correctly read read on what were our last

550-940-5912 5956 all right all right you craft the mix I stand correct oh no

I’m I am

very push it right up to that edge

I am very very hard nosed about that. That means we leave a lot behind and I hate that and yeah, I have known we were going to be doing this for quite a while and I go

well hold on hold on so the reason that I laughed so hard is because like I know how long we can record oh yeah and we usually go like 90 to 100 minutes each time and I always think like man like I was hoping we could keep it to an hour but oh well and here you are editing it down to an hour cuz our first couple seasons we were like hour and a half two hours or something

yes no that was and that was a thing that you know very quickly I learned Oh people don’t listen that long like that’s that’s too long that’s too much content easily. And what’s Do you remember this phrase? I’ve used it before murder your darlings Oh yeah, no not my phrase but yeah, but it is a phrase murder your dogs learn English English properties to say that yes, yeah, it’s a literary term. But you know, it basically means if you love something, then you should kill it for the sake of your story and the the murdering of some of the content that you You all don’t get to hear hurts me sometimes. consequence being I have every episode that we’ve had a guest on been doing two cuts of those episodes. And so those will be getting released through our Patreon full length. Not unedited, but you know nothing of material cut out of them. Right so all of that content will be available that’s that’s what that was a big one to me because I really hated not being able to share some of that stuff because and you know, sometimes Yes, we would get off on a tangent or whatever. But I felt like it was always interesting. Like it was always in service of a story. And so not being able to share some of that was it really did it like it hurt me sometimes to cut things down.

There’s at least three episodes where we spent like five minutes or speaking only in limericks, those will probably be in the cut tape, I guess. I guess he wouldn’t have left those in the regular episode. If you cut it down to an hour.

Remember the time I was showing you volume seven out of the encyclopedia, and I started speaking in in eldritch. tongue. Oh, I 20. Oh, is that what you were saying? 27 minutes worth? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. At any rate, remember that if

you’ve been enjoying the show, if you’ve been listening to it, and you’ve gotten a kick out of this, and we’ve entertained you or whatever, and you think, hey, the work we’re putting into this is worth two bucks a month or something, whatever, like, it will help. Here’s the thing. Here’s like, Well, yeah, because he’s like, I feel like getting $1 from somebody is a big deal to me on this.

I think that like this is a good discussion to have, like people can be squirrely about money, especially asking for it. And I think that like both of us have different views on this. And maybe like, this is a good thing to talk about on this show. You know, we talk about imposter syndrome a lot. Like, is there maybe a little bit of imposter syndrome here, charge charge what you’re worth? Yeah, we’re just like, I think where I come from is like, there should definitely be like, like, lower commitment tiers, right? Like a couple bucks or whatever. I’m subscribed to a couple Patreon campaigns to that level, because I do I want to support it. But like, the upper tiers aren’t as interesting. And it’s just sort of like, it’s like a thank you for making this kind of thing. Yeah, I’m totally down with that. Um, but I think also like, some people, like if, if they like content, you know, you should give them the opportunity to shell out like five or $10 or something. Yeah. And then make what’s the worst to happen, they just choose not to, like, Okay, well, they were gonna do that if you didn’t offer it to,

and you brought up imposter syndrome. And I think that’s a that’s a good, like, jumping off point for that, because you’re right. I shouldn’t be squirrely about it. Because I am very proud of the show we create and the work that goes, Yeah, and the research time that goes into the different topics, and you know, the effort our guests put in. And I absolutely think that our shows easily worth two bucks a month, two people easily. And if you feel that way, so here’s the thing. Here’s where it gets interesting, though, because I am very committed to the fact that this isn’t money that goes in the pockets, like, I don’t do this, because I’m gonna get rich, being a Podcast Producer, I do this because I love talking about all of this stuff, I get, you know, the most enjoyment out of learning new stuff from our guests. And one of the things that has been very important to us, we’ve talked about it many times is the issue of transcripts. And we are a victim of that classic problem of time and desire. We want our transcripts to be much better. But both Aaron and I have trouble with getting the time on top of everything else to also transcribe it. Typing transcripts

is no joke is a long process. Yeah, you know, for an hour of content, like we did them in the first season, we would do them ourselves by hand. And I would remember who take for an hour content would take me about three hours to do the transcript for it. And I type very fast. The problem isn’t that it’s that like, you can’t listen that fast. Yeah, you have to you have to listen and remember what you’re hearing and then type it. And a lot of times like I’d have to rewind 10 seconds and listen to it again to figure out what it was we said. And also you have multiple speakers. You have to like you know, start a new block of text. And then when we have a guest on Forget it, like that’s even more. That’s like three or four blocks of text total

to every court stenographer out there. Yeah. Yeah. Kudos to you, because you’re

doing that in real time. Yeah, but I mean, the reason why human transcription services aren’t cheap is because it’s a very laborious process. And we’ve been using what are we using right now for Yeah, many transcripts.

Right now. I literally use Amazon transcribe it the same machine transcription service that we submit Audio to that is actually it’s meant for short form content, it’s what it’s really meant for is like, services that provide customer support. Okay, and so they will like send their, they’ll have like their phone systems tied into it and everything. So like customer support calls will get transcribed into into their cars. Oh, okay, deal. Right? I’m using it to do whole episodes. And it’s not great. In fact, it is borderline bad. There are times where I genuinely don’t like putting the stuff out there. But it’s like, I also feel bad not putting anything out. Yeah,

that kind of gets back to that first point of like, better is the enemy of Yeah, right. Like, we like we want to do better. But also, we don’t want to not have anything because it’s not perfect. So like, apologies, but also like we’re trying to do but I do think is what you’re about to bring out. Yeah, I do label

it as well that it is a machine transcription. So here’s the thing that we actually were using a tool that was much better. Originally is a tool that will do Oh, yeah, text transcriptions, and it was actually quite good. That one of the other really great parts about it is you can share the editing experience where people can go in and clean it up after the fact. The thing was the show that made no money, I was using their free tear. And they stopped supporting content over I have zero 30 minutes or 45 minutes. And we just we were no longer able to use the service because of the limitations. Yeah, here’s what’s happening. One, I am going to be personally paying to get us the better level of their service so that we can actually use otter instead of Amazon. For all

time before I go to the next thing. If we do two episodes a month, like bi weekly, the most week most months have four weeks. How much does it cost per episode? per episode?

Yeah, it comes out to 833 a month. Okay, so that’s so that’s $4 an episode. Yeah.

So that should be one of the tiers that is you sponsor like your subscription is sponsoring the transcription of one episode.

I mean, okay, I like that. I want to put it into perspective, because I do have to pay for Amazon transcribe as well. The nice thing about transcribing it is dirt cheap. My bill varies between two and $4 a month. Yeah. So that’s to transcribe basically, two to three hours of episodes of episodes a month. Doubling that to eight bucks to get significantly better. Tax. Yeah. Is, I think well worth it at that point. I should have done it a long time ago. I apologize to folks, because I do know of a few users that do look at our transcripts and do use that. I apologize to you for not getting into this earlier, but I am going to go into that pro level. It’s going to be well worth at eight bucks a month. 833 a month.

Yeah. And we can go back once you have it in there. Like we can go back and do redo all the all

the older episodes and redo old episodes. That is yes, that is also a true statement. So yeah, it’s a fairly small bump to get a relatively good increase in quality, but it is still machine transcription. That is still a machine transcript at that point. Yeah. What my goal is with the Patreon is I would like to make enough revenue from that, that we can actually pay a full time human transcriptionist for this service. Okay, so

what would that cost for one of us?

That is a little bit more. How about a cheap human transcript is, uh, averages out to about a buck a minute. Okay, but what would be like 60 bucks, 60 bucks in Episode 60

bucks and okay. A is that by me? Is that is that unfair to the like, is that? Is that a fair wage for that? Probably not. Okay, what would be like the correct amount?

We probably more like 70 I’d have to do the exact math on it. But like, the other like services like Trent and some of those get, like, up into the more like, they’re more like $1 $20.30 a minute there. I mean, at $1 that’s, like, you know, that’s 20 to 30% more than some of the super cheap services. But

so I think that we should have a tier that has this limited to say, like, four or six spots. And it is like sponsoring right, like friends of transportion. Yeah, yeah, like and it’s limited to just like a certain number of spots and those spots get used towards paying a person to do a human transcript of the show. Feel it,

I feel it. That’s that is literally Goal number one. I would like to see if we can use our Patreon to have enough revenue per month to pay a human transcription. So do that math. That works out to 140 bucks a month. Can we do it? I don’t know. Probably not like that. I think that is asking probably a lot because most Patreon don’t actually generate that much money. But even if we can get part of the way there, I think that would be big because here’s the thing. If I’m paying the bucks a month for otter, maybe we can get away with hiring somebody to edit the transcript and get away a little cheaper. You know, in the short term or something like that, like we can get creative, I think, but that money is designed to go towards making the show better for you, the listeners, or you the listeners who can’t listen. To wrap up, though, for tonight, I want to just look back on a couple past episodes real fast. Can I Can we do that? Can I do that? No, that Okay, then good. Goodbye. Good afternoon and good night. I just thought it’d be fun to look back on it on a few little notes and gotchas here. One, this may not come as a surprise to you. What What do you think, Aaron? Number one episode 100 episodes? What’s our top?

I mean, I’m looking at the show. Okay, I can see what it is. Yeah,

that was it. Is it a surprise? I’m

not surprised. I’m not surprised.


It’s total. It’s like, so quick Beatty. And like this is basically a listicle. And I mean, it’s it’s good content. But also like, it’s like, super SEO compatible. So I’m not at all so fast.

So this is Episode 32. This was season two, that the 10 Ux commandments. That is still our top dog episode still number one on the list. Actually, by a pretty good margin. It really got some traction. And so I kind of expect to see that hold that spot for quite a while.

Did you ever look at the analytics on that? Like, I’m curious if our if we’re getting inbound traffic from like search engines or from shared content,

fun fact very hard to do that with a podcast? Because they aren’t hitting the page. People are, you know, go right there. They’re hitting the show. And I mean, I can tell you like the spread of like, applications that are hitting it, but there are some ways to track that. Certainly. But that gets into also paid stuff that is significantly more expensive. And I do not

need I don’t need Quick, quick shout out to Phil delevan, who wrote the 10 Ux commandments article that we source.

thank thank you for letting us stand on your shoulders. Yes. Hey, thank you. Thank you, Aaron, for honoring one of the things that I’m putting into our ethics website, which is crediting people who’s created Oh, yes. Yeah, there are a couple other things though, I’m gonna I’m gonna call out straight from that. One of the commandments was you shall build accessible inclusive products. I think that’s something that’s also something we’re in a different way. But in different wording. We are working into that ethics commitment. But yeah, like you should always be keeping a mind towards, like, how do people use your stuff? How do they get into it? How do they leverage the things you want to create. And so building those things, the best way you can is very important for all of them. And it helps you be a better developer to better the designer, better UX researcher, whatever the case is. I gotta take a sip, got my sip. Oh, wait, I’m out of sips that was mostly water, hold on Yamazaki 12 coming up. The other one was you shall always respect and defend the users.

I like that. I think that’s, that’s a good. It’s a good practice to have. I mean, whether you’re a developer or a user yourself, like it’s always good to advocate for the users

yet. And this is another one, I call it out because we are using an indifferent form in our ethics site, the wording I have used, and this is the first password and it may change before it actually hits the ground. But it’s I will advocate for users that don’t have a voice in our process, which is most users, right? Yeah, it’s like, yeah, literally all your users need to have that voice. And this is where, how do you do that perfectly. You can’t. But it’s about the effort that you can put forward into it. Especially for the folks like it’s easy there. We do have users who have a voice in the process us, right, we’re users Yeah, we are very elite level of user for the thing we build. But we also represent a very broad and encompassing demographic. Both you and I.

I think it’s I mean, since we just brought up the 10 Ux commandments. I want to mention that the commandment number one is you are not the user.

Yes. Yeah.

So So yes, we we are Technically also users but also we’re not the user.

But that number one is about not putting yourself buff born or like not treating yourself as because I said right, we are an elite right form of the user. We are not representative of the user, we we are

privileged with the jargon of whatever the institution is we’re but yeah, the business life actually this is into us. Yeah, yeah. I, I was giving, I just got verified on a new social site. And I don’t want to say the name of it here, because I’m going to talk about some UX issues very briefly.

Oh, God, I want to guess, but I’m not going to but I want to guess so badly. Because I have some names. And I want to throw them out. Yeah, you, you probably know it is I’m gonna keep my mouth shut, though. Okay,

I’ll message you, I don’t care. Okay. Um, but the I gave some I got verified and then invited to like this the slack and everything. And I don’t know, I looked looked at the site this morning, cuz I was gonna update something on it. And I noticed some, like pretty glaring UX issues. And one thing I noticed was that their navigation, they were using very, like, strongly themed. No, it is not that, Oh, damn it. Um, they’re using very strongly themed language as the link names. And that made it like, I’m sure internally, they knew what that meant. But as a user, like, I don’t know what the hell goes there. And when I click through to it, I was like, Oh, it’s this and like, the thing that I immediately got out of that was like, You should make your, your, like navigational links should have should suggest purpose. So if you have a link that goes to a community page, then it should be something like, discover or community or, like, meet other people, or I don’t know, something, depending on what the purpose is of that area of your site. The link should suggest that intent, so that when the user is using the site that they can easily find, you know, what they can think the question, they the task they have in their mind that they want to do, and they can look on the page, they can find the thing, it’s the closest to that task, it’s probably not the noun of whatever thing is strongly branded. Anyways, I was giving some user feedback, UX feedback about that. And that was something that came up. But it gets back to like a, you know, you’re not the user. Yeah. So like, they seem to have forgotten that their users probably don’t know all the cool ideas they’ve thought of, there’s a lot of theming things that they’ve done. I’m not trying to knock it but it’s like, the navigation of your site is kind of, it’s a mechanical thing. It’s not just like, like, you should reinforce your brand, or like you should tie it in somehow, if you can. But also, and more importantly, you have to think about like, this is this is your users Lifeline into your like little world life you created. Yeah. So never Don’t forget that.

best episode, best top episode of Season Four. What is it?

The show notes

how Sam cheating again? Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, you are the CO hosts, I just assume you didn’t read. A read it is read it off.

It’s number 80. Reviewing the results of the 2020 design tool survey that was earlier this year was early

early. Now, in fairness, obviously, a show early in the season is gonna have more listeners than a show later. So this is like, this is really me kind of, and I’m fudging things a little bit by not doing more legwork to maybe do a fair timespan, but I thought it was worth the saying like, this is the episode that more people listened to of any other to date from Season Four. And so if you’re looking for something that apparently, people really enjoyed the results from the 2020 design tools survey, which is interesting, cuz we also just brought up the CSS survey. So I’m going to bring that up again, if you haven’t already, go sign up for the 2020 state of CSS survey. It is a long survey but it will stay save your progress so keep that in mind and go go fill that out but one more review that once they released those results, but yeah, I thought that was it. And if I was if you gave me a blind list and said, pick what you think is best. I would have picked something around there just because I know Yes, earlier is gonna have more listens. But I wouldn’t have picked that episodes. I’m surprised actually a little bit that the design tools survey ended up being the big one, especially given I think maybe how predictable some of the outcomes were, you know, with the different tools and, you know, this notion that we keep changing the tool we use, but figma has kind of locked in that top spot for a lot of people, right?

I think that episode was that has kind of like, some, like perennial legs to what I think I mean, at least for a while it’s contemporary information. That’s kind of like that’s something that you probably find via like a Google search when you’re looking for, like a design tool or something. I can see that I’m not terribly surprised. I mean, I, I don’t know, I’m not looking at the rest of the first five episodes from the season. So I’m not sure what I would have guessed. But

you mentioned earlier, like 10 Ux commandments, you know, is kind of like Beatty, in terms of learning. And this kind of does to like people like lists people like, you know, those simple things. And I would actually expect to probably see like an episode like this hold for a good year. But then once it’s no longer like 2021, and we’re in the 22. I bet that drops off quite a bit on the analytics. Sure. Let’s talk best though, week, because every show gets one. You know, every show gets that last week. And that window is the equivalent for everything out of every show from this season. What do you like for best launch week?

Well, I mean, I can see the answer in the

show. And you keep telling everybody that and I’m trying to make you look good. But

I’m like I’m I’m pleasantly surprised. But only like small surprised. Like, I’m not surprised that it that it was it. But it’s a nice to see that it was it’s it’s the previous episode. It’s number 99. How kind design will shape the web. I’m really happy to hear that that one did so well. On the first Yeah,

I’m pleased because we wanted that one to do. Well, like that was an episode that Yeah, really, because, again, this gets into stuff that is really going to fuel what we talked about for a long time to come. And that was sort of us planting the stake in the ground and saying, now’s the time. So I’m really, really thrilled to know that that episode, ranked best. It also is I think a reflection of we like most podcasts over the last year and a half saw a hit to our numbers because of COVID. People weren’t traveling, they weren’t driving in their cars, they weren’t getting on the subway, they weren’t sitting back on their way to work listening to shows.

It’s so counterintuitive, right? Like you would think like, oh, people are at home more. They’d have more time to watch the shows. But really, it’s the transition from a To be fair, that people are like, oh, I’ve got some time they’ll all listen to it. Yeah,

they turn their brain off in those moments. So like they feel comfortable doing that. And that’s not unique to us. It’s not unique to our industry. I was across I don’t

listen to podcasts. I generally don’t listen to podcasts with few exceptions at home. I listen to them in the car, when I’m running errands or picking up my kids or just or traveling. That’s when I listened I listened to I am

I’m at home I crank up my stereo My wife has asked me singing it’s bad oh it’s real bad folks. Not a pretty pretty experience

yeah I’m so i’m i’m not surprised that that was the the best ones. We did do a lot more promotion for it. We did that’s I know that you You did a lot more like engagement with with different people on Twitter. And there was like, there was a lot more like inroads, I think to that particular episode, which is good. I mean, that’s like that was the write up if we had to pick one episode this year to really push. That was a lovely one.

Yeah. And it’s it’s what it also shows that the effort is worthwhile. You know, if you care about something, you go do that footwork, it will pay off for you. And that’s true. Okay, this is a podcast and you’re building a website, whatever. Like taking that time to talk to people about it and show people what you’re doing will get people’s reaction. And I’m I hope we continue this trend. And the one thing I’m also trying to weigh against this is y’all are coming back, and that’s making me real happy like that bump, that bump we had because of COVID and people not traveling. That rebound has been in progress for quite a while and I’m just I see it in the numbers. I see it in the graphs. And I’m really happy to see like, yeah, people are coming back in the numbers. They used to listen so I look forward to the next season to see how much we can grow beyond that even. And that’s what I got. That’s the that’s Episode 100. It’s kind of a recap. It’s kind of a lot of things. We could have done a whole bunch of different stuff. And we’ve kind of I think, settled on this notion of no let’s just let’s talk about what we got going on like this is a this is a mile marker and so

it’s again my mind like this is key flip flopping between, like, like, Oh, yeah, we’re doing like the end of your episode. But we’re not we still

leave more episodes still have that stuff coming so.

So yeah, we’ll have hopefully have like something we’ve been talking about something cool to do at the end of the year I’ve

got the what’s not fun. I’ve got things that are here, yes. But sit back take a whole quick second, actually, I think take about five seconds 102 weeks away 101 I hope that you’ve enjoyed the first 100 I hope if you’re new, and you’re just catching us, go back and listen to some of the previous 100. That’s a lot of hours. That is a whole lot of content, especially the first specially the first few seasons where we regularly ran an hour and a half an hour and 45 Yeah, a lot of content there. So if you’re new to the show,

go props to you for editing them down, man, I thought for sure we were still pushing an hour and a half per episode. So I like I thank you on behalf of the users for getting it blue. And

that makes you feel better or worse. It’s much harder to edit like an hour and 45 minutes down to one hour than it is to notice you know something? Yeah, just for clean. But yeah, I genuinely do hope folks are enjoying everything. I say I used to present a lot of conferences, I used to travel a lot and go to areas and do talks on things. And I haven’t had opportunity to do that as much, just because by travel of not just from last year, just in general, my travel has lightened up from what it used to be. And I can’t imagine why this has filled that. For me that void and I really have enjoyed sharing my experience and knowledge. And I’m serious. It’s 100. Looking forward to the next 100. Stay tuned. Keep your eyes open. And Aaron, bring us home.

You should win if you are new. If you haven’t checked this out before, be sure to check us out on Twitter and slash drinking UX and slash Drunken UX Podcast. You’ll have the best success with Twitter it

occupies everything

that we

Yeah, but more people in general or on Twitter, I

think yeah, I think we have a bigger audience on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. And then you can also you should definitely come be trucking to slash Discord. And come chat with us. We have some good discussions on there now and then. And I don’t know like I genuinely want to hear like I love it when people come in and tell us what they think about like show or just related topics

good opportunity to share what kind of Patreon perks he would like to see.

Yeah, yeah, really. I would. legitimately I would like to know that I can think of all these ideas and everything, but I don’t know that they’d actually be interesting. Incidentally, I started, I had to create a Patreon creator account so that I could get API access because I’m working on a different project that maybe I’ll talk about in a future episode. And I will not talk about my experience with Patreon API because oh, anyways,

I saw

Yes, yeah, yeah, it was anonymous complaining on Twitter I I really appreciate what Patreon does. And I know that like you know, running a public platform is not easy. But I just had a very frustrating experience. Anyways, I have a personal one and I tried to figure out what I was going to do with mine. So I don’t know people have any ideas for that.

It’s easy for us to sit here kind of in our chairs and be like we’re going to talk about what we want to talk about we’re gonna build what we want to build. And I say like I’m gonna design what I can am capable of designing but that feedback we get from you guys is very valuable for all of that whether that’s you know, tweaking the guests we bring on or the topics we cover, you know, whether that’s getting in like yeah what what kind of perks Can we give you? What kind of benefits can we give you in any of that? Those things are all like the absolute demonstration of keeping your users close and your personas though i i i’m backwards, but keeping my personas close and my users closer. I said it so many times now I don’t even know.

maker persona time.

Bye bye.

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